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#80407: "Re-order cards in hand"
inforequest: Gli sviluppatori vorrebbero più informazioni riguardo questo suggerimento
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Suggerimento: a mio parere, quanto di seguito migliorerebbe notevolmente l'implementazione del gioco
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• Spiega il tuo suggerimento in modo preciso e conciso in modo che sia il più semplice possibile per capire cosa intendi.
It would be awesome if you could implement the option to re-order cards in hand other than just the flag system.• Qual è il tuo browser?
Google Chrome v109
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2 feb 2023 0:58 •
bennygui • Gli sviluppatori vorrebbero più informazioni riguardo questo suggerimento:
2 feb 2023 1:12 • For now the flag system is the way to go. I'll keep this open if others want to comment.
mikeneuf • Gli sviluppatori vorrebbero più informazioni riguardo questo suggerimento:
2 feb 2023 7:54 • I'm going to second this - it seems like it would be very useful to be able to toggle between the default flag system and an alternate system, my suggestion would be to have the option to sort by soil cost. Not sure if any other sorting systems are necessary, but that sure would be nice! Hopefully it wouldn't be too difficult to implement? Loving the game so far!
bennygui • Gli sviluppatori vorrebbero più informazioni riguardo questo suggerimento:
3 feb 2023 2:33 • Do you have specific use cases for this? Why do you want to reorder cards in your hand? Is it because you are searching for a specific soil cost or score on a card? Having played the game a lot, the flag system to decide which cards to keep or to compost is really useful... So is it more to sort cards by soil or score (or something else) or you really want a specific order?
mikeneuf • Gli sviluppatori vorrebbero più informazioni riguardo questo suggerimento:
3 feb 2023 17:56 • The flag system is very useful, and yes, a toggle to sorting cards by soil is the main one I would personally want, for planning out planting turns once your hand gets large instead of having to hunt through the stack to see what works. No big deal if you don't want to incorporate it.
bennygui • Gli sviluppatori vorrebbero più informazioni riguardo questo suggerimento:
3 feb 2023 18:00 • Thanks for the answer! I ask because I want to add useful featuresa and not add something that no one will use because I misunderstood the suggestion.
Also, do you see this sorting as something permanent or just something temporary while you search for a card?
Also, do you see this sorting as something permanent or just something temporary while you search for a card?
mikeneuf • Gli sviluppatori vorrebbero più informazioni riguardo questo suggerimento:
5 feb 2023 16:40 • Of course! It would be temporary while searching for a card or planning for future turns. Definitely not a permanent change, the flag system is more useful overall.
Wangechi • Gli sviluppatori vorrebbero più informazioni riguardo questo suggerimento:
6 feb 2023 7:54 • I (OP) just find the flag system limited, as it only gives three orders of priority. I usually end up sorting the cards by playing with the flags for a while, but it's really time consuming. I would find the possibility to sort cards freely especially useful in turn based games (but I would totally use the feature in real time games too).
bennygui • Gli sviluppatori vorrebbero più informazioni riguardo questo suggerimento:
6 feb 2023 13:01 • @Wangechi: I usually have very few cards that are a good fit for my strategy so the green and brown flags are enough to put 4 to 6 cards to the front of my hand. And then I have cards that I know in will put in my compost with the red flag... So my question is: why do you need a precise order for all the cards in your hand?
mikeneuf • Gli sviluppatori vorrebbero più informazioni riguardo questo suggerimento:
20 feb 2023 16:36 • Rescinding my support for this request. After more plays, the existing flag system is more than adequate.
SachaBear • Gli sviluppatori vorrebbero più informazioni riguardo questo suggerimento:
5 ago 2023 16:27 • I want to add my support to this request.
The flag system, with its only 3 levels of priority, is rather under insufficient.
It would be nice to be able to *manually re-order cards in hand*.
(Note : an automatic sort based on criteria would likely not be good enough. Cards have too many criteria we could sort them by (type, terrain, cost, VP value, power colours, etc). And I would want to this kind of sort to happen *within* a given flag colour.)
(Note : the game Century : Spice Road allows for this manual re-ordering. So it's technically possible within BGA toolset.)
Reasons why the Flag system is insufficient.
- It is not rare for me to have 20-30 cards in hand. If I am still relatively early in the game (6-8 cards in tableau) and I am not completely sure of what exactly I will play until the end, I may easily find myself with 10-15 cards marked as Green, and maybe 5+ as Brown (so, still-to-be-considered). This means that when I get to plant, I still have to survery a good number of cards. I'm not saying this makes the Flags useless (it's still much better than nothing), but the Flags fail to deliver a satisfactory level of usefulness.
- As it stand, the flag system places the newly drawn card "somewhere in the middle". More precisely, between Brown and Red Flagged cards. Which means I have to comb through my hand, squinting to focus on the Red Flags, to find the spot where the new-information-to-process is located. (I am aware of this thread, boardgamearena.com/bug?id=81842. Both issues are intimately linked.)
- When we choose the Plant action, we end up drawing 4 cards. These are highlighted, and much easier to spot. Recently drawn cards, that I have not yet Flagged, should be similarly highlighted.
- Follow up on the previous point (and this could be thread of its own, but again, it's all related) : when I have to draw 1 cards chosen among 4, the 4 cards should not go in my hand. They should say below/above my hand, and then, only when I have chosen which one to add to my hand, it should go to my hand.
(Note : Wingspan does this correctly. When you play a bird that says "draw X+1 cards, where X is nb of players, and everyone picks one in turn", cards are not added to your hand. Conceptually, "look 4, draw 1" is not the same as "draw 4, discard 3". The latter case is the one where cards should be put in hand.)
- The Flag are too small. With a big hand that can easily extend to 3 rows, it would be better to see them more easily. Or perhaps even better : instead of Flags under the cards, apply a light colour filter (Green/Brown/Red) on the cards. So that it's much easier to glance at the hand and see what is where.
Reasons why I want to manually re-order my hand.
- Often, I have different objectives I pursue (e.g. the race to Fauna cards, the endgame Ecosystem cards, a couple of terrains I want to max out). This can easily lead to 10-15 Green Flagged cards. When it's my turn to plant, I may decide that I want to progress one of them in particular, ... and I would like all of the relevant cards to be together. (Either already together if I sorted my hand already, or be able to put them together now.)
For example : one Fauna card wants cards with a cost of 3-, one wants cards with 4+ VP value. If I'm near completion for the first one, I want to see my 3- cost cards. Which I could have put together.
- Pretty obvious, but I'd like my Event cards to stay be together. In the Green and Brown Flag tiers, I'd like to group them.
- In the same vein, I very often want my lands to be together.
Note : this does not mean I want to my cards automatically sorted by Event, Terrain, and by Flora type. Sometimes I don't care about the Flora type and only care about habitat. Or cost. Or VP value ...
- Even with the Green Flag tier, I have cards I keep because they satisfy 2, 3 or 4 criteria I am after, and some that I keep even though they only satisfy one criteria. Clearly, I want to play the multi-criteria progressing cards first. But I can't tell the Flag system that some Green are actually Super Green. However, I could put the most useful cards at the beginning of my hand.
The flag system, with its only 3 levels of priority, is rather under insufficient.
It would be nice to be able to *manually re-order cards in hand*.
(Note : an automatic sort based on criteria would likely not be good enough. Cards have too many criteria we could sort them by (type, terrain, cost, VP value, power colours, etc). And I would want to this kind of sort to happen *within* a given flag colour.)
(Note : the game Century : Spice Road allows for this manual re-ordering. So it's technically possible within BGA toolset.)
Reasons why the Flag system is insufficient.
- It is not rare for me to have 20-30 cards in hand. If I am still relatively early in the game (6-8 cards in tableau) and I am not completely sure of what exactly I will play until the end, I may easily find myself with 10-15 cards marked as Green, and maybe 5+ as Brown (so, still-to-be-considered). This means that when I get to plant, I still have to survery a good number of cards. I'm not saying this makes the Flags useless (it's still much better than nothing), but the Flags fail to deliver a satisfactory level of usefulness.
- As it stand, the flag system places the newly drawn card "somewhere in the middle". More precisely, between Brown and Red Flagged cards. Which means I have to comb through my hand, squinting to focus on the Red Flags, to find the spot where the new-information-to-process is located. (I am aware of this thread, boardgamearena.com/bug?id=81842. Both issues are intimately linked.)
- When we choose the Plant action, we end up drawing 4 cards. These are highlighted, and much easier to spot. Recently drawn cards, that I have not yet Flagged, should be similarly highlighted.
- Follow up on the previous point (and this could be thread of its own, but again, it's all related) : when I have to draw 1 cards chosen among 4, the 4 cards should not go in my hand. They should say below/above my hand, and then, only when I have chosen which one to add to my hand, it should go to my hand.
(Note : Wingspan does this correctly. When you play a bird that says "draw X+1 cards, where X is nb of players, and everyone picks one in turn", cards are not added to your hand. Conceptually, "look 4, draw 1" is not the same as "draw 4, discard 3". The latter case is the one where cards should be put in hand.)
- The Flag are too small. With a big hand that can easily extend to 3 rows, it would be better to see them more easily. Or perhaps even better : instead of Flags under the cards, apply a light colour filter (Green/Brown/Red) on the cards. So that it's much easier to glance at the hand and see what is where.
Reasons why I want to manually re-order my hand.
- Often, I have different objectives I pursue (e.g. the race to Fauna cards, the endgame Ecosystem cards, a couple of terrains I want to max out). This can easily lead to 10-15 Green Flagged cards. When it's my turn to plant, I may decide that I want to progress one of them in particular, ... and I would like all of the relevant cards to be together. (Either already together if I sorted my hand already, or be able to put them together now.)
For example : one Fauna card wants cards with a cost of 3-, one wants cards with 4+ VP value. If I'm near completion for the first one, I want to see my 3- cost cards. Which I could have put together.
- Pretty obvious, but I'd like my Event cards to stay be together. In the Green and Brown Flag tiers, I'd like to group them.
- In the same vein, I very often want my lands to be together.
Note : this does not mean I want to my cards automatically sorted by Event, Terrain, and by Flora type. Sometimes I don't care about the Flora type and only care about habitat. Or cost. Or VP value ...
- Even with the Green Flag tier, I have cards I keep because they satisfy 2, 3 or 4 criteria I am after, and some that I keep even though they only satisfy one criteria. Clearly, I want to play the multi-criteria progressing cards first. But I can't tell the Flag system that some Green are actually Super Green. However, I could put the most useful cards at the beginning of my hand.
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