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Cacao resoconto
#22152: "Add Turn Undo"
#22152: "Add Turn Undo"
rejected: Gli sviluppatori pensano non sia una buona idea o che il rapporto costo/benefici sia troppo alto
22152
A che riguardo è la segnalazione?
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Suggerimento: a mio parere, quanto di seguito migliorerebbe notevolmente l'implementazione del gioco
Cos'è successo? Prego, seleziona tra le seguenti
Suggerimento: a mio parere, quanto di seguito migliorerebbe notevolmente l'implementazione del gioco
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| # | Status | Votes | Game | Type | Title | Last update |
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Descrizione dettagliata
• Per favore copia/incolla il messaggio di errore visualizzato sullo schermo, se possibile.
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• Per favore spiega cosa avresti voluto fare, cosa hai fatto e cosa è successo
• Qual è il tuo browser?
Mozilla v5
• Per favore copia/incolla il testo visualizzato in inglese invece che nella tua lingua. Se hai una schermata di questo errore (cosa buona e giusta), puoi usare Imgur.com per caricarla e fare copia/incolla del link qui.
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• Questo testo è disponibile nel sistema di traduzione? Se sì, è stato tradotto nell'arco di più di 24 ore?
• Qual è il tuo browser?
Mozilla v5
• Spiega il tuo suggerimento in modo preciso e conciso in modo che sia il più semplice possibile per capire cosa intendi.
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• Qual è il tuo browser?
Mozilla v5
• Cosa era mostrato sullo schermo quando sei rimasto bloccato (schermo bianco? interfaccia di gioco parziale? messaggio di errore?)
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• Qual è il tuo browser?
Mozilla v5
• Quale parte delle regole non è stata rispettata dall'adattamento BGA
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• La violazione delle regole è visibile nel replay della partita? Se sì, a che numero di mossa?
• Qual è il tuo browser?
Mozilla v5
• Qual era l'azione di gioco che volevi fare?
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• Cosa stai provando a fare per attivare questa azione di gioco?
• Cosa è successo quando hai provato a fare questo (messaggio di errore, messaggio nella barra di stato del gioco...)?
• Qual è il tuo browser?
Mozilla v5
• In quale fase del gioco si è verificato il problema (qual era l'istruzione della partita in corso)?
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• Cosa è successo quando hai provato a fare questa azione di gioco (messaggio di errore, messaggio nella barra di stato del gioco...)?
• Qual è il tuo browser?
Mozilla v5
• Per favore descrivi il problema rilevato. Se hai una schermata di questo errore (cosa buona e giusta), puoi usare Imgur.com per caricarla e fare copia/incolla del link qui.
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• Qual è il tuo browser?
Mozilla v5
• Per favore copia/incolla il testo visualizzato in inglese invece che nella tua lingua. Se hai una schermata di questo errore (cosa buona e giusta), puoi usare Imgur.com per caricarla e fare copia/incolla del link qui.
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• Questo testo è disponibile nel sistema di traduzione? Se sì, è stato tradotto nell'arco di più di 24 ore?
• Qual è il tuo browser?
Mozilla v5
• Spiega il tuo suggerimento in modo preciso e conciso in modo che sia il più semplice possibile per capire cosa intendi.
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• Qual è il tuo browser?
Mozilla v5
Storico dei resoconti
4 ago 2020 23:13 • DarkBeerMike • Questo suggerimento non è stato ancora analizzato dagli sviluppatori:
optional undo
5 ago 2020 6:03 • Luq B1 • Questo suggerimento non è stato ancora analizzato dagli sviluppatori:
Agree 100%
5 ago 2020 21:34 • DarkBeerMike • Questo suggerimento non è stato ancora analizzato dagli sviluppatori:
Consider a checkbox to enable/disable the undo feature. I want it, but other players may feel differently.
8 ago 2020 20:23 • Aeneas90 • Questo suggerimento non è stato ancora analizzato dagli sviluppatori:
Agreed. Undo should be mandatory for all games if hidden information isnt revealed.
9 ago 2020 9:33 • ExtraPaul • Gli sviluppatori pensano non sia una buona idea o che il rapporto costo/benefici sia troppo alto:
I understand your request.
But "As a rule of thumb, on BGA we advise you to not undo moves." (en.doc.boardgamearena.com/BGA_Undo_policy)
It's the first time I program a game : I don't want to complexify the code at this time.
Maybe for a futur release...
Meanwhile, a refresh (F5) seems to be a solution.
But "As a rule of thumb, on BGA we advise you to not undo moves." (en.doc.boardgamearena.com/BGA_Undo_policy)
It's the first time I program a game : I don't want to complexify the code at this time.
Maybe for a futur release...
Meanwhile, a refresh (F5) seems to be a solution.
9 ago 2020 16:35 • Aeneas90 • Gli sviluppatori pensano non sia una buona idea o che il rapporto costo/benefici sia troppo alto:
Rejected the most upvoted issue because "its my first time and its too hard" doesnt fill me with confidence here. Perhaps see if there's a more experienced dev that can assist.
9 ago 2020 16:46 • ExtraPaul • Gli sviluppatori pensano non sia una buona idea o che il rapporto costo/benefici sia troppo alto:
I correct my point of view : it's not "to hard", but "too dangerous".
I don't want to loose control of the programming by implementing a not recommended functionnality.
But I keep in mind this request : I hope that players don't expect a 100% perfect game in the first release.
I don't want to loose control of the programming by implementing a not recommended functionnality.
But I keep in mind this request : I hope that players don't expect a 100% perfect game in the first release.
10 ago 2020 5:57 • ExtraPaul • Gli sviluppatori pensano non sia una buona idea o che il rapporto costo/benefici sia troppo alto:
The request #22149 ask to change worker tile place on the board, then confirm.
An UNDO would be easy to program for this state.
But an UNDO on tile actions is very inconvinient : on each action click, animations are launched, scores are updated, notifications are written, database is updated and all players view action in real time.
An UNDO would be easy to program for this state.
But an UNDO on tile actions is very inconvinient : on each action click, animations are launched, scores are updated, notifications are written, database is updated and all players view action in real time.
14 ago 2020 0:54 • MoonGoyal • Gli sviluppatori pensano non sia una buona idea o che il rapporto costo/benefici sia troppo alto:
I agree. Many games need this feature
14 ago 2020 13:59 • paramesis • Gli sviluppatori pensano non sia una buona idea o che il rapporto costo/benefici sia troppo alto:
An Undo action or confirm step is very frequently requested for adaptations where it doesn't exist, and I frequently see developers lean on the guidelines as an authoritative answer to every situation. Any experienced designer will tell you there is no such thing as a one-size-fits-all answer. The entire intent of guidelines is to make better adaptations, and it is on the developer to decide where that line is.
Are players having to click confirm buttons too many times?
Are players intentionally playing bad moves or moving pieces around in order to "think"?
Are players frustrated that the interface wouldn't let them take the turn that they wanted to take because they made one misclick? (definitely sounds like the case here).
Are players having to click confirm buttons too many times?
Are players intentionally playing bad moves or moving pieces around in order to "think"?
Are players frustrated that the interface wouldn't let them take the turn that they wanted to take because they made one misclick? (definitely sounds like the case here).
14 ago 2020 16:46 • ExtraPaul • Gli sviluppatori vorrebbero più informazioni riguardo questo suggerimento:
Hello Paramesis.
Imagine that I have four jungle actions to carry out around my worker tile 1-1-1-1 :
- Get 2 cacao
- Sale 1 cacao for 2 gold
- Get 1 cacao
- Sale 1 cacao for 4 gold
I can click on any action in any order. Each action update score and notify other players about what's happen.
How the undo must be managed ?
If I get 2 cacao, sale 1 for 2 gold... oh no, mistake, I wanted sale for 4 gold -> Undo.
Then, Undo become available for my first action too ?
What others players see ? Gold back to the tile and score decrease ?
Imagine that I have four jungle actions to carry out around my worker tile 1-1-1-1 :
- Get 2 cacao
- Sale 1 cacao for 2 gold
- Get 1 cacao
- Sale 1 cacao for 4 gold
I can click on any action in any order. Each action update score and notify other players about what's happen.
How the undo must be managed ?
If I get 2 cacao, sale 1 for 2 gold... oh no, mistake, I wanted sale for 4 gold -> Undo.
Then, Undo become available for my first action too ?
What others players see ? Gold back to the tile and score decrease ?
14 ago 2020 17:16 • paramesis • Gli sviluppatori vorrebbero più informazioni riguardo questo suggerimento:
There are a few ways you could go about this, but the simplest to implement and the one I would recommend would be database undo.
en.doc.boardgamearena.com/Main_game_logic:_yourgamename.game.php#Undo_moves
This would undo your entire turn. Canceled notification log items would disappear and there would only be one item saying "<player> cancels their move". The guidelines do mention that this is a heavy-handed solution because it saves and restores the entire table's data, but it is consistent with how many other games are implementing undo.
A more difficult to implement alternative would be an incremental undo ("player undoes worker action"). This would require storing individual actions taken this turn in the database in some way and creating a coherent way to represent undo on the client side. This is how I implemented incremental undo for tile placement in Off the Rails, but it does have the disadvantage you mention of creating a log entry for every action that is done and undone.
en.doc.boardgamearena.com/Main_game_logic:_yourgamename.game.php#Undo_moves
This would undo your entire turn. Canceled notification log items would disappear and there would only be one item saying "<player> cancels their move". The guidelines do mention that this is a heavy-handed solution because it saves and restores the entire table's data, but it is consistent with how many other games are implementing undo.
A more difficult to implement alternative would be an incremental undo ("player undoes worker action"). This would require storing individual actions taken this turn in the database in some way and creating a coherent way to represent undo on the client side. This is how I implemented incremental undo for tile placement in Off the Rails, but it does have the disadvantage you mention of creating a log entry for every action that is done and undone.
15 ago 2020 10:04 • ExtraPaul • Gli sviluppatori concordano che è una buona idea e intendono lavorarci su:
Thank you for this explanation.
I note that an Undo for the whole turn of actions is a way, but :
- a confirm button is thus necessary at the end;
- this state of the game is in multi player mode : the undo database will be for all players ?
- I must fire notifications to remove cacao fruits in the player zone;
I'm considering this Undo for the future, when I'll be more "veteran" with BGA programming.
This is a big refactoring.
I note that an Undo for the whole turn of actions is a way, but :
- a confirm button is thus necessary at the end;
- this state of the game is in multi player mode : the undo database will be for all players ?
- I must fire notifications to remove cacao fruits in the player zone;
I'm considering this Undo for the future, when I'll be more "veteran" with BGA programming.
This is a big refactoring.
15 ago 2020 15:20 • paramesis • Gli sviluppatori concordano che è una buona idea e intendono lavorarci su:
The basic implementation of database undo actually only requires a few lines of code.
$this->undoSavePoint(); at the beginning of a single player's turn, an undo button added to the action bar (possibly with a modal confirmation), an undo action added to action.php and added as a possible action to the state, and $this->undoRestorePoint(); if the user takes the undo action. See La Granja, Teotihuacan, and Off the Rails (mine) for publicly accessible precedents.
I do not believe an end turn button violates the intent of the BGA guidelines for multi-step turns. I have written a defense of this position on the forums here: boardgamearena.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=16770
Of course, every game is different, and if an end turn button feels like too much of an extra step, you could investigate the "request undo" checkbox precedent established in Teotihuacan. This would require refactoring to add an extra state, or to add an extra argument to each player action.
database undo is not supported in multiactiveplayer states. There can be only one persistent active player between any two points where undoSavePoint and undoRestorePoint are called. From my understanding of this game, it seems pretty rare that the multipleactiveplayer state would require multiple actions, so you'd probably be fine without an undo here. If it feels like it does need an Undo to be consistent, it might be better to cycle through players in a single action. La Granja has a game option for this, but that might be overkill here.
No notifications are necessary to restore the game state. undoRestorePoint automatically handles this :)
$this->undoSavePoint(); at the beginning of a single player's turn, an undo button added to the action bar (possibly with a modal confirmation), an undo action added to action.php and added as a possible action to the state, and $this->undoRestorePoint(); if the user takes the undo action. See La Granja, Teotihuacan, and Off the Rails (mine) for publicly accessible precedents.
I do not believe an end turn button violates the intent of the BGA guidelines for multi-step turns. I have written a defense of this position on the forums here: boardgamearena.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=16770
Of course, every game is different, and if an end turn button feels like too much of an extra step, you could investigate the "request undo" checkbox precedent established in Teotihuacan. This would require refactoring to add an extra state, or to add an extra argument to each player action.
database undo is not supported in multiactiveplayer states. There can be only one persistent active player between any two points where undoSavePoint and undoRestorePoint are called. From my understanding of this game, it seems pretty rare that the multipleactiveplayer state would require multiple actions, so you'd probably be fine without an undo here. If it feels like it does need an Undo to be consistent, it might be better to cycle through players in a single action. La Granja has a game option for this, but that might be overkill here.
No notifications are necessary to restore the game state. undoRestorePoint automatically handles this :)
15 ago 2020 15:21 • paramesis • Gli sviluppatori concordano che è una buona idea e intendono lavorarci su:
I forgot to add that rolling out database undo will break games in progress, so it's best to do that now while it's in Alpha.
25 ago 2020 15:58 • iris1 • Gli sviluppatori concordano che è una buona idea e intendono lavorarci su:
Wish it was like in carcassonne 3 tiles in hand. Be able to change mind about which of the three tiles and try them out on the before you confirm. Then I guess the undo would be not necessary.
14 set 2020 3:39 • razzinplant • Gli sviluppatori concordano che è una buona idea e intendono lavorarci su:
An undo button when placing a tile would be nice so before you confirm placement you can choose a different tile.
24 set 2020 10:32 • NexusHorizon • Gli sviluppatori concordano che è una buona idea e intendono lavorarci su:
I think that would be enough and a more practical solution (for players and developer) to have the ability to change the worker tile just before choosing the jungle tile
24 set 2020 11:49 • ExtraPaul • Gli sviluppatori concordano che è una buona idea e intendono lavorarci su:
Yes, and this iidea is here : boardgamearena.com/bug?id=24585
28 set 2020 21:55 • ExtraPaul • Gli sviluppatori pensano non sia una buona idea o che il rapporto costo/benefici sia troppo alto:
"I think that would be enough and a more practical solution (for players and developer) to have the ability to change the worker tile just before choosing the jungle tile"
This is implement is this new release version 200928-2118.
I reject the idea to program an undo on a multi players state : this is overkill and reduces the flow of the game.
This is implement is this new release version 200928-2118.
I reject the idea to program an undo on a multi players state : this is overkill and reduces the flow of the game.
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bug?id=22152
