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#92433: "Stars appear to be connected on Hercules"

notabug: Questo non è un errore

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Astra #391082123

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3 Jul 2023 19:13 • Sigzy • L'errore non è stato ancora riprodotto dagli sviluppatori:

On move 73, I used Eridanus to mark a star on Hercules, expecting all adjacent stars to be marked. However, the adjacent grand star did not get marked. Since the card text of Eridanus specifies "all stars" I would expect the grand star to be included. I also tried selecting the grand star itself as the target star, which actually failed to mark the previously targeted star. I think there may be a bug in the connection of these two stars (through Hercules' armpit.boardgamearena.com/bug?id=0&table=391082123#

Table where this occurred (move 73): boardgamearena.com/table?table=391082123

Eridanus: imgur.com/7r9Hh6p
First scenario (marking star adjacent to grand star): imgur.com/Ir3CvLp
Second scenario (marking grand star): imgur.com/x0pvbSg

9 Jul 2023 16:55 • Kayvon • Questo non è un errore:

You didn't use Eridanus on move 73. You untapped it, allowing it to be used again, but never actually used it.

9 Jul 2023 16:55 • Kayvon • Questo non è un errore:

Report short description
"Google Chrome v114"
changed to
"Eradinus ability doesn't work when not activated"

10 Jul 2023 02:25 • Sigzy • Questo non è un errore:

Are you serious? I left you so much detail. I went to great lengths to report what happened. I assure the above is most certainly a bug. I spent quite a few minutes diagnosing it from a few angles. It may show that I didn't use the ability because I chose not to after finding out wasn't allowing me to do what I wanted to do.

Please look further. Did you even look at the images??

10 Jul 2023 03:17 • Kayvon • Questo non è un errore:

> Are you serious?
I am. You may not believe, it been I spent some time looking at move 73 and everything around it.

> I left you so much detail.
You did. Thank you. That helps me narrow in on the right move.

> On move 73, I used Eridanus to mark a star on Hercules
Actually, that's not what happened
>> Move 73: Sigzy reactivates Eridanus
That's not a card use, that's you untapping the card. I saw that and thought to myself, "Sigzy spend some time putting a lot of information into this report. I should investigate further." So I did! Here's everything I tried:
1) I went back several turns, then I replayed it from your point of view performing the same actions.
2) I verified that Eridanus was untapped, rather than activated, on Move 73.
3) I looked at all the later moves to see if you used Eridanus earlier in the game (you didn't)
4) I then looked back through earlier moves to see if maybe you simply misstated the move number by a couple moves. Nope! The last use of Eridanus was way back on move 27. Certainly not the move indicated in the report.
5) I scratched my head for a while, then figured that the detailed you added simply didn't add up with what the game showed. "Probably a misreport," I figured. We get *several* of these every week and 95% come back and simply say they misread the log.

> It may show that I didn't use the ability because I chose not to after finding out wasn't allowing me to do what I wanted to do.
Nothing showed up on the undo log, either. I checked for that. Maybe call that step 6 in my reproduction?

So there I was with two bad options. What would you do?
A) Close the report after having investigated it because 95% of such reports turn out to be a simple misreading of the situation
B) Pour another hour into trying to figure out what could possibly have gone wrong. I've actually chosen this option before in the past several times. I've logged *several hours* chasing ghosts that turn out to be nothing.

Maybe you'll understand why I chose A. Maybe you won't. Either way, you've chosen hostility instead of friendliness and cooperation in trying to communicate here, which feels like a punch in the face for the time I've volunteered towards trying to help here. I'll remind you that I'm not a BGA employee, just a fellow fan. At this point, I'm not compensated in any way for assisting here, just volunteering time to make BGA a better place.

FWIW, here's the final solution.
> imgur.com/x0pvbSg
That's a great picture because it shows two stars that you expect to be connected, but they aren't actually connected. You've misread the situation (see option A again). Those two stars are not connected on the card. Yes, it's hard to tell. No, I didn't create the card. Yes, I would have made it more obvious if I'd designed the card.

16 Jul 2023 18:56 • Sigzy • Questo non è un errore:

I appreciate the thorough response. My hostility was because your initial reply so flippantly dismissed a bug report that I had spent significant amount of time on. I'm still adamant that it is a bug. Even in the last part of your response the screenshot of that card clearly shows a line segment between those two stars. How are they not connected? I don't want this to continue to be hostile. I appreciate the time you're volunteering here.

16 Jul 2023 19:02 • Sigzy • Questo non è un errore:

Another thought just occurred to me. Clearly my screenshots show me using Eridanus. But I never committed the move because I chose to do something else after discovering the bug. But I did go through various selections of different stars to see different outcomes.

I can't remember how I arrived at the turn number that I did. I think I moused over the last link in the game history and saw whatever number it was and added one. Not sure if there's a better way to tell what move number you're currently on.

Anyways, just looking at that card and the fact that there is a line segment between those two stars means to me that they are connected. And since the ability did not mark that star through that connection, it seems to me as though it's just a missed data point on that card. But you said that there is no connection there. Which is confusing to me because of the visible line segment showing that there is a connection.

16 Jul 2023 19:07 • Sigzy • Questo non è un errore:

And finally, the title of your response could have been friendlier.

"Eradinus ability doesn't work when not activated"

Maybe you read that differently than I do. But it sounds backhanded. Obviously I was trying to activate the card. In the preview of that activation is what I was basing all my screenshots on. Implying in your response that I never activated it and that's why it didn't work is pretty rude. You may as well have just called me an idiot.

Anyways, this is getting hostile again. I do appreciate you volunteering your time. But would strongly encourage you to improve your responses to bugs to avoid further reactions like this.

17 Jul 2023 00:00 • Kayvon • Questo non è un errore:

Report short description
"Eradinus ability doesn't work when not activated"
changed to
"Stars appear to be connected on Hercules"

17 Jul 2023 00:15 • Kayvon • Questo non è un errore:

Hi, Sigzy. I appreciate your reply and the intent to work through things together. I apologize for the tone in my initial response. At the risk of ruining my apology with an explanation, we regularly receive a number of both false reports and hostile responses. I probably let it get to me more than I should.

Let's work through these points together.

> it sounds backhanded
I've updated the title to something that I hope sends a better message.

> Clearly my screenshots show me using Eridanus. But I never committed the move
That's the disconnect between us in your initial report. The report says you used him. You probably had the right move number, too. Because you never committed the move, you never actually used him. Consequently, the move never made it beyond what you saw locally in your browser and there was nothing for me to find when I investigated.

I realize that's probably frustrating to you that I didn't look closer. As I mentioned previously, false reports are such a frequent occurrence that I tend not to look beyond the initial facts of the report. I've wasted so many hours chasing things that weren't actually problems in the past that I've learning to just stop when things aren't adding up. Some of the kinder users even come back and report they had just made a mistake in filing the report. We had two of those in the past week, even. For that reason, frustrating or not, I'm not likely to pursue an issue beyond the initial set of facts, but as you've seen I do return when players provide additional information or clarify what they meant. There's got to be a back-and-forth, of course, just by the nature of this being a volunteer effort. (Or probably even if this were a full time position.)

> Anyways, just looking at that card and the fact that there is a line segment between
> those two stars means to me that they are connected.
I mentioned some of this in my previous response, so forgive me if I repeat myself a bit here. At a glance, they do appear to be connected. When you look closely at the card without the extra player stars on it, you'll see that there's no actual line there. There's a bit of starburst from the grand star that's very similar to a line, but it fades as it approaches the star you believe to be connected. I made the same mistake initially. A closer inspection reveals that they are not, in fact, connected.

> Which is confusing to me because of the visible line segment showing that there is a connection
Go back to your picture and zoom in real right on that loop you drew. Examine that "expected to be marked" star and you'll notice that the firm line to the left is different than the one on the right, which fades out before actually touching the star. I didn't design the card, so please don't shoot the messenger.

17 Jul 2023 18:02 • Sigzy • Questo non è un errore:

Wow. You are absolutely correct. Man I thought I was taking crazy pills. I was like "Does he not see what I'm seeing?" Now I simply know I need to go see my eye doctor :D

Thank you for your patience with me through all of this.

Also, fwiw I actually own the physical game and the the starburst effect is less deceiving in person. imgur.com/a/tDNyjlK

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#92433: "Stars appear to be connected on Hercules"

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