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#169988: "Circular Economy advanced action not working correctly when all emissions have been removed"

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E-mission #676486488

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21 May 2025 21:23 • MonsterDash • L'errore non è stato ancora riprodotto dagli sviluppatori:

* F5 did not solve the problem
* Every time

16 Aug 2025 21:14 • Kayvon • Questo non è un errore:

In general, game rules specify what your *are* allowed to do, rather than listing actions that you are not allowed to perform (outside of clarifying). I've just looked through the rules and don't see anything that suggests you can do just a portion of the card's effect, so I'm going to leave this as is.

17 Sep 2025 11:43 • TravaharSummaPowah • Questo non è un errore:

Does that mean that if Energy Demand is at zero (admittedly hard to do but not impossible) the code on BGA will prevent us from reducing emissions?

Would it mean that when the box runs out of resilience tokens the cards adding those tokens cannot be triggered either? After all the rules don't specify you're allowed to substitute coins, buttons, etc in as extra tokens.

E.g. would a card like daybreakgame.org/card/1132 become unable to trigger if there were no more energy or infrastructure tokens in the box? Does the BGA version even keep track of how many tokens are in the box?

Looking at other cards and daybreakgame.org/card/1018 (as well as several others) uses the keyword "then" instead of "and" so it doesn't feel like Circular Economy is beholden to the order in which you have to remove the tokens.

I hope my message doesn't come across as crass. It's just that I (and I assume many other players) use BGA's implementation as the standard when it comes to how a game mechanic works) so I feel strongly about making sure the current implementation indeed has it right.

If I come across as too strong then please (a) have my apologies, it's hard to convey tone over the written medium and (b) know that I care very much about this game and love how you've translated it to BGA

17 Sep 2025 14:22 • Kayvon • Questo non è un errore:

You are not piece limited, so you cannot run out of tokens. This is not the case for all games, but Daybreak isn't intended to run out of tokens. On other games we've implemented, the token limits are strictly tracked. For instance, we receive a bug report for Spots every several months when someone doesn't receive extra treats as a result of the supply running out.

I agree that this case is a wobbler. The cards usually have a cost-reward: discard a card, gain a benefit. It's obvious (to me anyway, but I'm sure you'll agree) that discardig isn't optional. Circular Economy is more of a benefit-benefit, so it seems less harmful to allow players to skip the first benefit. But the implementation is designed to require the first clause before granting the second, otherwise the cost-benefit would break.

I appreciate your approach here. It is indeed hard to tell someone's attitude and many players become very argumentative very easily, but clearly not you.

In this instance, we're inclined to keep the implementation as is. At best, this case is a wobbler and rarely comes up in gameplay.

18 Sep 2025 15:22 • TravaharSummaPowah • Questo non è un errore:

Thank you for your quick reply.

> It's obvious (to me anyway, but I'm sure you'll agree) that discardig isn't optional

I agree that costs should be paid in full. The rules even go into the edge cases for cards like hydroelectric plants (daybreakgame.org/card/1011) this one cannot be triggered without ecological resilience. The rules are clear: when you must lose a token that you don't have, add a Community in Crisis. So hydro cannot be triggered without resiliience as the player would be chosing.

> In this instance, we're inclined to keep the implementation as is. At best, this case is a wobbler and rarely comes up in gameplay.

I'm glad we can agree that it is a wobbler and I do understand your inclination to keep things as is.

However, I'm playing another game (cause this game is so good and it's well implemented that I'm almost playing it daily) and I think I can wobble it further.

Currently at table=731519571 move =74 with Fossil Fuel Nationalization (daybreakgame.org/card/1044) on my second stack. This card indicates that by discarding, 2 fossil fuel tokens per regulation tag are removed. My stack would thus 12 fossil fuel tokens.

I cannot remove that many tokens (and the game doesn't allow to choose how many cause sometimes triggering this card puts you in energy deficit and you'd wish you could've taken less than the full effect but that's not an option).

Yet the game allows me to trigger this card despite not having 12 dirty energy tokens to remove (and I don't think anyone would argue this card becomes unusable once you exceed the treshold).

I have made a post on BGG. Hopefully one of the designers will weigh in and unwobble things :)

Thanks for reading and thanks for your brilliant implementation of this game

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#169988: "Circular Economy advanced action not working correctly when all emissions have been removed"

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